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Frozone
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PostSubject: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:29 pm

as most members know, we have different postions each person is in, Gym Leaders, Moderators, E4 , things like that, well am going to make a ranking system to really put out who are the best overall battlers in the forum in order to do so i need everyone to post their current record on b/w and on generation 4, and i will make the list according to that and through battle experiences of my own and other players. PLEASE BE HONEST.

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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:36 pm

define "current record". Well i honnestly thought we should have had a rank system, and i think it should be you must fight the person above you to take their position... instead of points as points would get to heckteck. but then again do we really need a rank system as how can you judge who is better? e.g the rock, paper, scissors therum...

take Chris, Gab and Ray for example.

Chris > Gab
Gab > Ray
Ray> Chris

who is better?

but overall completely support just you need a full method of equation before putting it into practical.
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:06 pm

Ranking systems have to have a base before a method, and current record as you record standings for wifi battles yes it will be very inacurate at first but that is just how placeing will work once everyone is placed in a list that is when challenges can approach to be number one.

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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:22 pm

i like it lol im 1 win and 2,000,000,000,000,000 losses Razz
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:14 am

if we did that, me and allen would be the best battlers on this site
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:14 am

oooohhhh ak quite cocky are we? naw i 67% beleive your claim and as for me? well i'd say 45 wins and 40 loses
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:09 pm

yeah ak don't get to full of yourself.

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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:21 pm

How about lets all get on Pokemon Online with fresh accounts and whoever has the highest points by the end of the week wins? And we can make our rankings based on that.

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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:27 pm

that would work but just needs more time

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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:24 am

and alot of people dont have pokemon online....
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:36 pm

Anyone can download pokemon online, if you have internet you should be able to play.
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:14 pm

I begs to of the differ... If my comp let me have PO trust me, I would have it by now but my comp is screwed so no surprise there
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:28 pm

lol not getting full of myself, but oh just wait till you face allen's ou team, anyway what tier are we gonna do? just standard/without ubers?
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:08 pm

yeah just standard no ubers but i mean have a more intresting team than a team full of OU kinda makes it boring battling the same pokes over and over

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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:08 pm

im not an OU whore trust me...i hate OU tier anyway
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:09 am

Its nothing wrong with OU whore. This is competitive battling or OU/standard and the object is to win using whatever it takes as long as its not uber.

Other battles like UU, RU, monotype, challenge cup (really fun everyone should try it), the Xmas tourney were having and etc are considered "fun" battles even though theres alot of competitive in those as well.

I love both types of battles and I think people needs to draw a line between which types of battles they're doing. Bringing a pikachu or farfetchd into OU because you dont wanna be called an OU whore is just silly.
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:46 am

I bring terrible Pokemon into OU not because I don't want to be considered an OU abuser, but because I find that it's fun messing with people who take the game seriously. Some people call it "trolling", I call it "reality check".

As this conversation isn't about me, I'm going to keep this relatively short. Where should I begin?

Pokemon Online, surprisingly enough, does not just depend on a reliable connection. Some Windows computers have a terrible time with this (although the chance of this happening is admittedly very slim), as far as I know the Mac support is actually pretty awful (but I wouldn't know), and the Linux version is...well, if you run Linux, you probably already know how to set it up properly, but if you don't, it's ridiculous. It is totally a nice program, though. I'm always fascinated by the effort put into it, and I've even made my own theme (hosted on another site) for it.

The problem, I feel, with standard competitive battling is that people doing it take themselves way too seriously. I'm well aware that it's a standard reaction to a lot of games (here's looking at you, Street Fighter) but it doesn't mean it's a good trait to have. Then again, I'm not a fan of playing any game seriously, so it's probably just personal bias speaking.

I'm not sure how well a ranking system would work, all things considering. I'm not entirely sure why you're advocating a Pokemon Online system for what is apparently a Wi-Fi battle ranking system, but I'm sure you have your reasons; as for me, I disagree with utilizing a simulator to record a Wi-Fi rank, considering in Pokemon Online and Shoddy Battle all of the Pokemon are flawless, whereas unless you're a dirty cheater (or you take forever to breed flawless IV's) you can't really have flawless Pokemon on Wi-Fi. I guess on Pokemon Online it just proves skill for battling, but Pokemon Online is a simulator. It's even advertised as a battle simulator. I'd like to point out that I'm not doubting your skill in battling, and in fact, considering I'm a member that rarely contributes anything, my advice is probably also not going to be taken seriously.

Of course, in terms of ranking, I'm probably the worst on the site, considering I rarely win. So this post might just seem to be complete nonsense. It probably is. I'm not sure. I do know, however, that for all the apparent "bashing", it's not actively contributing ideas.

...I might have a problem with keeping posts short.
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:07 am

7 wrote:
I bring terrible Pokemon into OU not because I don't want to be considered an OU abuser, but because I find that it's fun messing with people who take the game seriously. Some people call it "trolling", I call it "reality check".

Dont you think people have more fun beating you then you have fun "messing with people who take the game seriously". And how can you mess with people when you lost to them? so the jokes are on you.

7 wrote:
Pokemon Online, surprisingly enough, does not just depend on a reliable connection. Some Windows computers have a terrible time with this (although the chance of this happening is admittedly very slim), as far as I know the Mac support is actually pretty awful (but I wouldn't know), and the Linux version is...well, if you run Linux, you probably already know how to set it up properly, but if you don't, it's ridiculous. It is totally a nice program, though. I'm always fascinated by the effort put into it, and I've even made my own theme (hosted on another site) for it.

Whats the point of this paragraph ? It seems like your not sure about what youre saying because sentence like this "as far as I know the Mac support is actually pretty awful (but I wouldn't know)" lol do you know or not?

7 wrote:
I'm not sure how well a ranking system would work, all things considering. I'm not entirely sure why you're advocating a Pokemon Online system for what is apparently a Wi-Fi battle ranking system, but I'm sure you have your reasons; as for me, I disagree with utilizing a simulator to record a Wi-Fi rank, considering in Pokemon Online and Shoddy Battle all of the Pokemon are flawless, whereas unless you're a dirty cheater (or you take forever to breed flawless IV's) you can't really have flawless Pokemon on Wi-Fi.

Listing a Wifi records gives little to no info about whos the best, for example:

Zstorm- 43-40
Guy2 5-0
Guy3 13-8
Guy4 70-55
Guy5 35-19

you tell me whos the best based on this? And why are you disagreeing with PO laddering to see whos the best? Because pokemon have perfect ivs? It works for both players. So no.

7 wrote:
I guess on Pokemon Online it just proves skill for battling

I completely agree with you on this sentence and thats exactly what Frozone is looking for ---the best battler.
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:17 am

Since you actually replied to my message, I'll just follow your lead.

Allen wrote:
Dont you think people have more fun beating you then you have fun "messing with people who take the game seriously". And how can you mess with people when you lost to them? so the jokes are on you.
That would be good and all if I believed that winning was everything. But I don't. I find that sending out ridiculous stall teams that somehow take up 75% of the turns is fun, for instance. I take great humor in getting thrashed because I know the person on the other end has done less with his life than I have with mine. And I'm just a web designer!

Considering the most family-friendly nickname I have on my team is "s**tf**ker" (uncensored, obviously), and considering I talk a lot, is it really that hard to believe that I mess with people quite well?

I fail to understand how studying games a group of people made for no other purpose than to get money and recognition, all to make tiers and play under them, is fun and not a waste of time. This is the same in Street Fighter and BlazBlue, among other games, and quite frankly, I don't get the appeal. I'm primarily a casual gamer (that was more or less forced to adapt to Pokemon battling, and that's a long story so I won't talk about it) so that's probably why I don't consider taking video games seriously; being serious about video games is pretty silly to me.

(Unless the game in question is the Sonic Adventure Chao Gardens. Then I take that really seriously because they're so adorable and I love them.)

Allen wrote:
Whats the point of this paragraph ? It seems like your not sure about what youre saying because sentence like this "as far as I know the Mac support is actually pretty awful (but I wouldn't know)" lol do you know or not?
The point of the paragraph was to elaborate on the fact that no, Pokemon Online does not and often will not work for everyone. I don't know about the Mac support because I don't own a Mac (and never will, but that's for another rant). In the regard of compatibility between systems, Shoddy Battle and Pokemon Lab take the cake, because Java is nigh-universal, but even then there's the problem of "do I have administrator privileges to run Java?"

When you ask, "does 7 actually know what he's talking about?" then you can usually infer that I do, unless I don't, in which case I don't. Is there a point to this little part of the post right here? No, but I typed it anyway, because I'm 7, I can do that.

Allen wrote:
Listing a Wifi records gives little to no info about whos the best, for example:

Zstorm- 43-40
Guy2 5-0
Guy3 13-8
Guy4 70-55
Guy5 35-19

you tell me whos the best based on this? And why are you disagreeing with PO laddering to see whos the best? Because pokemon have perfect ivs? It works for both players. So no.
Listing Wi-Fi records was the whole point of the topic. It even says so right in the first post. Based on those records, I can infer that Guy4 would be the best, mostly due to battling experience and an overall decent ratio, but since that's obviously not the point here, I digress.

I disagree because both players have perfect IV's. When, in a real world situation, would you ever see that happening? If you somehow have six legitimate magically 31-IV'd flawless EV's Pokemon with the perfect movesets and so on, what are the chances that your opponent has the same, and what are the chances that the match would go smoothly for both sides? Battling relies as much on Pokemon raising (and luck) as it does on actual tactics.

That and I have a natural tendency to disagree with the laddering system, especially on Pokemon Online, thanks to the decay rate and many other variables that tend to fluctuate. Then again, since I disagree with the whole "let's organize X based on Y!" systems that are prevalent everywhere, I'm naturally against them for various reasons.

Allen wrote:
I completely agree with you on this sentence and thats exactly what Frozone is looking for ---the best battler.
Good to see we have an agreement here! The best battler, but on which battleground? Just because you're good at Pokemon Online battling doesn't mean you're able to breed and raise Pokemon well in the actual games (unless you're a dirty cheater, as I said before, or just if you have buttloads of time on your hands), and considering the better tournaments (the ones with money involved) actually take place on the games, well...

It's true that Pokemon Online battlers are more Smogon-aligned (not that I think it's a good thing, but that's for another rant) but that doesn't mean they're all good. I'm sure you know, since you're obviously well-versed in Pokemon Online, that about half of the people on there are n00bs. (I am including myself into the approximation because, despite the fact that I know kinda a lot about competitive battling, I'm not very good in practice.) It doesn't make it any more different from Wi-Fi battling, except maybe that Pokemon Online has all of the perfect flawless Pokemon and there are n00bs more easily accessible to you unless you go on Serebii's IRC. Have you ever been challenged by those types of people? If no, you should check out more servers; both of mine and two of my friends' servers usually have them, albeit sporadically.

I'll try to type less in the future. This is kind of a lot of text. Also I forgot most of it already.
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:09 pm

hey 7, you say youre the worst on this site? good luck losing to me >=D
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:44 pm

First of all you obv dont know much about competitive battling so you dont qualify for this debate. I think you need to get a life since your object of battling is trying to mess with people. Most people here can download and play PO just fine so that whole paragraph is just useless. IF you find fun is get owned and losing, then good for you noone cares, keep it to yourself next time and you can save a whole paragraph.

-This is competitive battling not competitive breeding and besides most people if not everyone here uses pokegen/pokesav anyways so perfect IVs is very common. It lets you edit the location/pokeballs/lv met at/ID etc. If you do it correctly theres no way of telling its hack.

-The whole PO players are worse than WIFI players tells me you dont know jinn about competitive battling. PO is 5x (if not more faster) than WIFI, what made you think that a player with 5x the experience is worst one???? Half of PO players are noobss lmao you never wifi battle havent you?
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:38 pm

okay guys seriously the ranking system was an idea, not an argument starter. so do not post about how people don't qualify or how much they know.

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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:48 pm

I enjoy how your counters all explicitly or implicitly target my supposed lack of experience, Allen! I am amused. I could counter the points you bring up, but, for once, it's not worth it. Let me instead point out that I type essays for fun, so paragraph lengths are in no way a concern to me. Would you like to see my ten-page string theory research paper I wrote for no reason whatsoever? It is incredibly boring!

I was talking about something similar to this to my girlfriend (not entirely the same thing) and she countered almost all of my points in a far better fashion and attitude than you have (mostly because, well, she's my girlfriend), so I'm pretty much done with this argument as it is. Feel free to keep thinking I'm an idiot, jerkass, retard, loser, no-lifer, or whatever other insult you can think up! I find it cute when people insult me. Smile


Frozone, as I'm sure you may have noticed, I never intentionally implied that Allen didn't qualify for this discussion, and I even mentioned that I respect his skill, although I admittedly have never seen him in battle. I do admire your effort to create ideas, though, and I'm sorry for prompting an argument in your thread. I find that this is a terrific idea, regardless of my opinions expressed previously, and I wish you the best of luck with it.


Pawn, I'm sure I will lose horribly if we ever did battle, unless I had a healthy dose of luck on my side. I usually do not have that luck.
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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:21 pm

lol i like this 7 guy reading his essays makes me feel smarter lol. anyways yeah i do not blame anyone for starting the argument i would just like if it didn't continue on this thread and stay on topic for it.

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PostSubject: Re: THE RANKING SYSTEM   Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:44 am

7 you were targeting me first everything you said was based on what I said, so obviously I had to reply. However if you know what you're saying and brought up good points then I will respect that but you didnt and here is why:

-the fact that you think WIFI players are better than PO players proves that you havent battle much at all.
-Not knowing about the new Pokegen software that lets to make pokemon looks exactly like they have been bred and 99% of WIFI players use it. All youtubers uses this I believe. IVs breeding and EVing is so 2009/2010.

Those two points pretty much shows your lack of knowledge in competitive battling and why this subject is getting off topic.
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