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 Help me with this new final team(Gen 4 SS team)

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☠Dr Flamedog☠
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PostSubject: Help me with this new final team(Gen 4 SS team)   Thu May 24, 2012 6:41 pm

After battling couple times and finding out that the older team with Shedinja DID NOT work(You were right allen), I put my original Gengar back to my team. As I've always had Gengar in my team, it was hard resisting not having him in my team since he is one of my favorite pokemon. So here it is:

Breloom-Toxic orb
Ability:Poison heal
Nature:Jollly
Evs:156Hp/100Atk/252Spd
-Spore
-Seed bomb
-Focus punch
-Stone edge

Breloom is going to be one of my leads. Obviously he's going to spore slower leads and stop them from setting up. He is also a physical sweeper. He spores, then kills them with focus punches.(Sub isnt needed when the opponent wouldn't wake up in one turn anyway, just a waste of moveslot) Seed bomb and stone edge for pokemon who resist focus punch. Btw this moveset has perfect coverage so its going to be hard switching into this guy especially when he can hit the switch in with focus punches. He is also going to be my agility baton passer from Jolteon. After being baton passes, he's going to be the fastest thing(even choice scarf users) so he can spore first and kill them with one of his moves. Also Breloom is my status absorber.

Skarmory-Shed shell(Dont want Magnezone making him useless)
Ability:Sturdy
Nature:Impish
Evs:252Hp/4Def/252SpDef
-Roost
-Spikes
-Stealth rock
-Whirlwind

Skarmory is also one of my possible leads but TBH he's kinda hard to use as a lead due to the many faster taunters out there. He sets up spikes and stealth rock, takes physical hits for my team, heal it off when he needs to, and whirlwind to phaze and let them take more entry hazard damage. But the biggest problem is taunt users so I will ensure the taunt user is dead first then Ill let skarmory set up. He also takes poison moves for my team like sludge bomb,toxic. I just love this metal bird(Love birds in general lol not that this matters)

Jolteon-Leftovers/shuca berry(Which one?)
Ability:Volt absorb
Nature:Timid
Evs:120Hp/176SpAtk/212Spd(Making speed 384 outspeeding base 125s. Dont want to risk competing with aerodactyl earthquake and crobat will hardly do any damage to me.)
-Thunderbolt/Thunder(Thunder for more power when his SpAtk is exactly only 300)
-Agility
-Baton pass
-Signal beam

Jolteon is my main baton passer. Since he is fast and have only 1 weakness, itll probably be easy to use one agility and baton pass it on to one of my teammates. Signal beam incase grounds come in. Jolteon also absorbs electric moves for my team mainly Gyarados and Skarmory.

Houndoom-Choice scarf
Ability:Flash fire
Nature:Lonely
Evs:36Hp/232Atk/176SpAtk/228Spd
-Fire blast/Overheat
-Crunch
-Thunderfang
-Solarbeam

Houndoom is my mixed sweeper for this team(also revenge killer) and also my absolute favorite pokemon! With those speed evs and choice scarf attached, it lets me outspeed all starmies, gengars and other annoying fast pokes under 120 base speed. Maybe overheat is better for more power along with spikes and stealth rock support from skarmory. Also crunch is to revenge kill starmies and gengars, thunderfang for pokes like poliwrath who resist both his stabs. Solarbeam mainly for slower switch ins. But I have to be very predictable.

Gyarados-Leftovers
Abiility:Leftovers
Nature:Careful
Evs:156Hp/76Atk/24Def/252SpDef
-Waterfall
-Bounce
-Earthquake
-Dragon dance

Gyarados is my specially defensive tank and will always be. Hes proven to be very useful at this job, well according to me. All the moves are pretty much self explanatory. Bounce is for stab and free leftovers recovery. He is pretty bulky to me. Gyarados also takes ground moves for my team.

Gengar-Black sludge
Ability:Levitate
Nature:Modest
Evs:156Hp/104SpAtk/248Spd
-Shadow ball
-Focus blast
-Thunderbolt(Something else good?Not too fond of thunderbolt)
-Willowisp

Gengar is my special sweeper. Timid nature isnt needed especially when jolteon can agility baton pass. And I hate timid gengars, they dont look right lol But anyway focus blast and shadow ball for absolute perfect coverage, thunderbolt is for extra coverage, and willowisp to lessen physical attackers attack because most of my pokes are frail defensively. And this helps them sweep more from taking more hits. Gengar also takes ground/normal/fighting moves for my team.


Last edited by flamedog on Sat May 26, 2012 7:47 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Help me with this new final team(Gen 4 SS team)   Fri May 25, 2012 12:52 am

I don't see why you don't want hidden power [grass]/[psychic]. Either one will save houndoom in the long run. expecially a 1v1 battle against any bulky water/fighting type, your houndoom would be doomed (if you pardon the pun)

Dreameater is a usless move unless you have hypnosis, so solar beam is going to have to be your best bet but the while your charging houndoom is a glass cannon and taking damage isn't really his thing.

another usefull move to have on houndoom is pursuit since (like you said) alot of pokes switch out on houndoom. that extra damage and boost come in handy.


Lol bounce on gyarados? hmmm i suppose, if (when) it doesnt work out for you try stone edge, the rock/ground/water combo but dragon dance is second to none
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PostSubject: Re: Help me with this new final team(Gen 4 SS team)   Fri May 25, 2012 4:06 am

Because my Houndoom has all 31IV making his hidden power dark and it has such a low power so I never really liked HP. But I was saying I can use solarbeam on a predicted switch in since Houndooms faster than most ground,water, and rock type pokes. Or should I use sludge bomb for blaziken/poliwrath for neutral damage? I know its only super effective to grass and houndooms fire blast covers grass but do you think I can use it for pokemon who resist both his stabs? Also sludge bomb hits ludicolo.
Yea bounce has always been amazing for Gyarados. Awesome high powered stab, most of the time it paralyzes, and free leftovers recovery.

Also do you see any specific threats you see for this team?
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PostSubject: Re: Help me with this new final team(Gen 4 SS team)   Fri May 25, 2012 7:07 am

you should try adding whirlwind to skarmory's moves because without it, there is nothing it can do against pokemon who set up since counter relies on the opponent to attack. Maybe it can replace stealth rocks. You can give stelth rocks to someone else. You could also replace counter with brave bird since high defence and lowish life isnt a good combination.
As for houndoom, what if you tried nasty plot? If it can use it while your opponent switches, it would wreak their team.

Also, having a rapid spinner would benifit your team since you have flying and fire types.

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PostSubject: Re: Help me with this new final team(Gen 4 SS team)   Fri May 25, 2012 9:24 am

hmm the only problem i could possible see would be a lead gliscor really making it difficult for your pokemon to set up. And gliscor in general if gyrados and breloom go down or you don't predict well, could be a problem, not saying he is like "oh my god you should really sort this out" but its something to watch out for.

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PostSubject: Re: Help me with this new final team(Gen 4 SS team)   Fri May 25, 2012 10:47 pm

Okay Ill use whirlwind for skarmory. Guess it helps out sweepers who boosts lol
For houndoom I switched its moveset-look at the edit.

Yea my friend has a gliscor in his team and it does seem to cause me problems to my team lol mainly because of taunt and escaping right away from u turn. Guess ice type moves are necessary. Hmm maybe gengar icy wind?
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PostSubject: Re: Help me with this new final team(Gen 4 SS team)   Sat May 26, 2012 8:40 am

Switch Signal beam on jolteon with HP Ice, it's mandatory for jolteon to have it.
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PostSubject: Re: Help me with this new final team(Gen 4 SS team)   Sat May 26, 2012 4:37 pm

I dunno why Gliscor cause you problems.. You have 4 pokes that checks it completely.. Skarm, gengar, gyrados, breloom (if it lacks flying attacks, which most do).

Take shucca berry out of jolteon, its defense is next to nothing. Ground users are generally powerful, it will kill with or without the berry.

There are problems with solarbeam, you cant predict what they are gonna switch into cus its gen 4 and theres no team preview.. they could easily switch into a dragon or a fire poke to resist your fire attacks and because you are trapped into solarbeam they can kill you off with a supereffective hit.

I know you say houndoom is your favorite poke here, but this is competitive battling and I only offer competitive advice. That being said there are better mixed sweeper than houndoom mainly infernape. Infernape is no doubt the best mix sweeper in gen 4, being the only poke that can break the skarm/bliss cores, celebi/heatran, and with HP ice it can break flygon/jirachi and Dnite/scizor cores. Infernape is also consider a stallbreaker as well a a sweeper.

I see a huge calm mind jirachi threat. It can take this whole team down, like i said in your earlier RMT jirachi is a huge threat to alot of teams in 4th gen. If it gets 1 CM up houndoom fails to ohko. Ask anyone who plays gen 4 and theyll tell you how much problem they have with rachi, myself included. The reason why superrachi isnt that big of a threat in gen 5 is because more dragons like hydreigon and the lati twins returns to OU.

That being said of course there are counters to jirachi but its limited. Heatran/Scizor is the best jirachi counters to this date, depend on the hidden power (fire or ground). Swampert also checks rachi but have to watch out for the occasional grass knot. There might be a few more but i cant think on top of my head right now, but as you can see its counters are limited.

The problem with the team is A) you dont have a spinner, B) you dont have any hard hitters/stall breakers. Because of that your team is vulnerable to stall teams. If hazards are up on your side of the field, skarm/bliss, celebi/heatran or rachi/dragon will troll you all day. Another reason you should run infernape- to break stalls.


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PostSubject: Re: Help me with this new final team(Gen 4 SS team)   Sun May 27, 2012 3:18 pm

Alright I'm changing solarbeam with another physical/special move. And thanks for the infernape suggestion but Im not exactly aiming just toward mixed sweeping with houndoom. I know infernape/blaziken is alot better at it but first houndooms my favorite pokemon, and also I like him with the fire and psychic immunity. The 2 immunities were what I was aiming for.

As for the jirachi threat, do you think DD gyara can solve with earthquake?

Also what do you think of a jolteon lead? Holding focus sash with the same moveset above. First use agility since he is faster than most leads(Bar aerodactyl and crobat but aerodactyl will probably use earthquake to kill me off not expecting a focus sash jolteon and crobat..Idk whats he going to do..maybe taunt but he probably wont want to risk getting hit by an electric move so he'll prob switch.) Okay so after using agility, he will be the fastest poke so he will definitely move first next turn. Then jolteon uses baton pass to breloom. Now breloom is the fastest poke here and will guarantee to spore first. So breloom spores and tries to kill the opponent with focus punch. And if they switch, they'll still take damage from focus punch and breloom can finish them off with another one of his moves.(Ghosts are a problem and thats it. Even fighting resists will take alot of damage and will either take stone edge or seed bomb to die) So is it possible the jolteon lead can make breloom a speedy spore sweeper and kill off the whole team?
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PostSubject: Re: Help me with this new final team(Gen 4 SS team)   Wed May 30, 2012 2:43 am

Theres a problem with that breloom strategies. Scizor! Banded scizor bullet punch has the same power as starmie surf or flygon earthquake. With breloom defense and hp, its not surviving bullet punch. I see your using the same baton pass strategy on gengar, bullet punch easily kill gengar.

flamedog wrote:
As for the jirachi threat, do you think DD gyara can solve with earthquake?

I would have to say no because:

A) Youre way too slow, you have no speed investment making your speed at 198 max meaning after 1DD (198*1.5) your speed is 297, rachi is 328. After 3 DD a scarf gengar (or anything with over 105base speed) still outspeeds you.

B) The lack of power is also a problem, after 2 DD you only have a 50% to kill jirachi! Heres the calcs:

76 +2 Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs 252 HP/0 Def Jirachi: 92.08% - 108.42% 50% chance to OHKO

You should add more atk and speed. Also if you really want to counter rachi, you should add scizor, heatran, swampert or even dugtrio to your team, after all you dont want to be in an "if-X-dies-Y-sweeps" situation

You should not worry too much about psychic attacks, they are becoming less common every gen. In gen 5 starmie almost never have psychic and alot of teams dont carry psychic attacks. I dont rmr how common they are in gen 4, but i dont recall it being used too often.

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