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 Offensive-ish 4th Gen team

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☠Dr Flamedog☠
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PostSubject: Offensive-ish 4th Gen team   Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:44 pm

After finding out that my last team did close to nothing in my battles, I switched around some pokes in my team. Most of them are still there but some have their sets changed. If you can,instead of actually changing pokes, I want to know what kind of possible threats might be devastating my team and their movesets,natures,evs,items etc for my pokes.

Note: This is close to an all sweeper team with only 2 pokes being bulky but this actually worked better for me than setting up and supporting teammates stuff. Those things just didnt fit my style so I went back to the all out offensive-ish style that I used to do back then. Also this team has 2 possible leads and it depends on my mood and predictability on who I will send out.

Also the 2 important things I lack for an all sweeper team is stealth rock and priority moves. Sure Houndoom can use suckerpunch but I find that to be a horrible move especially when only has an average attack stat. Breloom also learns mach punch but he does much better with focus punch. And none of my pokes in this team learns stealth rock so guess I will have to cope with that.

The names are in Japanese because I am Japanese owning the Japanese version of the game. But will write in English next to it.




ゲンガー(Gengar)-Expert belt
Ability:Levitate
Nature:Modest
Evs:156Hp/104SpAtk/248Spd
-Shadow ball
-Icy wind
-Focus blast
-Thunder

Gengar is my first possible lead and special sweeper. IMO I think he is one of the best leads out there. The reason is first he's immune to fake out and explosion, 2 common moves for a lead. He also has the nice immunities and resistances that make up for his frail defenses. And also with the investments in hp I gave him, he will be pretty hard to KO. Also psychic and dark type moves are barely used by any leads. So anyway icy wind will be used first to slow down a poke and break sashes. Then he can proceed to finish off the slowed down poke with one of its remaining moves. Also, Gengar forces alot of switches so he can use icy wind on that when I predict a switch and the poke will also be killed by one of Gengar's remaining move. Now you may be wondering why the hell thunder, well with thunderbolt it doesn't even 2KO most bulky waters even with an expert belt. So thunder is there for more power, and besides if it has focus blast why not use thunder also? And I don't see thunder missing all the time, at least in my experience. And that's not it. Gengar can come back middle or late game and act as a normal special sweeper.




キノガッサ(Breloom)-Toxic orb
Ability:Poison heal
Nature:Jolly
Evs:160Hp/96Atk/252Spd
-Spore
-Stone edge
-Focus punch
-Facade

Breloom is my other possible lead and physical sporing sweeper. If I know that the opposing lead is a Swampert or Metagross or other slower leads, I can send him out. So obviously Breloom spores pokes and tries to kill them with one of its moves that provide perfect coverage. Facade, stone edge, and focus punch provides perfect coverage so that helps him sweep better along with spore.


ギャラドス(Gyarados)-Leftovers
Ability:Intimidate
Nature:Careful
Evs:252Hp/76Atk/24Def/156SpDef
-Waterfall
-Bounce
-Dragon dance
-Taunt

Gyarados is my special hit taker. Electric might screw him up bad but he is likely to survive non stab thunderbolts not named Gengar with life orb. Besides, Ive got Flygon for that anyway. So he DDs and attacks with one of its stab moves to do some damage but otherwise he takes crazy amount of hits whether physical or special because of intimidate. Taunt is also a very good move on him especially after a couple of DDs because pokes like Skarmory who won't get KOed by Gyarados will probably try whirlwinding me so thats when I use taunt to stop that. So basically, he is only stopped by defensive pokes who carry a stab electric move.



ジバコイル(Magnezone)-Choice specs
Ability:Magnet pull
Nature:Bold
Evs:236Hp/252Def/20SpAtk
-Thunderbolt
-Flash cannon
-Signal beam
-Hyper beam

Weird set but works for me. This Magnezone is pretty much the closest thing to a wall in this team and a tank because of his offensive stats with choice specs. He takes care of bulky waters and celebi. Also dont forget he is the infamous steel killer. With choice specs attached, he will literally kill any steel(bar Steelix and Magnezone) with a 2KO. Hyper beam over HP because HP modifier makes my game freeze so I could only get HP dark. And hyper beam is just like explosion, a suicide move. And he uses that when he has no other moves to use to damage a poke, like Jolteon.





フライゴン(Flygon)-Choice scarf
Ability:Levitate
Nature:Adamant
Evs:4Hp/252Atk/252Spd
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Thunderpunch
-Rock slide

When I took a close look at my team, I realized I didnt have a dragon and started panicking. But Flygon all solved this problem and also, he was in my ingame team back in the R/S/E days and forgot how much I loved him. Something that made it better was the fact that he was a ground type too. It gives me electric immunity though I got to watch out for those infamous boltbeam combo. Anyway this guy revenge kills and physical sweeps and does the job quite well according to my opinion. Also, I find u-turn to be an absolute pointless move because since he's choiced, he can't switch moves to use u-turn if a threat comes in and why would I send out Flygon just to use u-turn when I could be sending out a counter for the poke in the first place? So thunderpunch over u-turn to come in and kill a +1Gyarados. Rock slide over stone edge because stone edge wont be killing Zapdos anyway(unless its a crit but I dont wan't to depend on that) and the high flinch is always nice.



ヘルガー(Houndoom)-Wise glasses
Ability:Flash fire
Nature:Timid
Evs:40Hp/252SpAtk/216Spd(216Spd to outspeed base 90s and dont want to risk tiers due to its frailness)
-Fire blast
-Dark pulse
-Super fang
-Role play

I love this guy. I really do. I even have a dog that looks like Houndour. Anyway enough of irrelevance, Houndoom is my late game sweeper. But he doesn't necessarily have to be. Houndoom is probably one of the few special sweepers who wont have problems with Blissey especially with this set. Role play to copy Blisseys natural cure to just sit there and let Blissey waste her time toxicing me or paralyzing me only to find out I switch and she poisoned or paralyzed me for nothing. And superfang is there because most people think Blissey will completely wall Houndoom's attacks so thats when I use that move to cut her hp in half. And I can keep using that move while she heals and heals. And eventually I kill her. 40 hp evs to take 3 seismic tosses from Blissey. Houndoom is also a Vaporeon, Jolteon counter. Houndoom is fast enough to role play and vaporeon uses surf-Houdoom heals. This is actually better than actually having trace as an ability because Houndoom can always have its ability back to flash fire when he switches which is still an amazing ability. Also don't think that I'm only using him for Blissey, I can actually sweep with this guy at anytime too, preferably late game though.

Immunities:
Fighting-Gengar
Normal-Gengar
Ground-Flygon,Gengar,Gyarados
Fire-Houndoom
Psychic-Houndoom
Poison-Magnezone
Electric-Flygon
Status-Breloom

Also 5 of my pokes are immune to toxic spikes, and 3 immune to toxic spikes.


Last edited by flamehound on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:45 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Offensive-ish 4th Gen team   Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:31 am

Where are your rocks? making teams without stealth rocks implies that you are insanely undervalue the power of hazards.

You should run a timid nature on gengar, modest nature fails to outspeed pokes with 100 base speed. Infernape and pokemon with 100 base speed are very prominent.

Take HP evs out of gengar. Gengar shouldnt be taking any hits that it isnt immune to. Putting evs to survive scizor bullet punch isnt a winning play. Because you dont have hp fire, you're not winning 1v1 against them anyways, there are safer options like going to gyrados.

Run sub on gengar. Gengar speed and typing forces alot of switches, subbing on the switch and proceed from there is the way to go.

The vast majority of scizor do tend to be the sword dance set, if they are the SD set then zone cannot trap because no hp fire.

Magnezone cannot beat any jirachi set 1v1 except for the specs magnezone set, although the chances are pretty shaky. I recommend you run the specs set with hp fire because you can safely trap all scizor, some variants of jirachis and of course ohking skarm with tbolt.

As an avid set up sweeping player, the number one problem with set up sweepers is getting revenge killed and number two is not being able to pull of clean sweeps. Houndoom isnt doing any of those two things to the full potential of a set up sweeper. Being weak to 2 prioritys meaning any poke with aqua jet or mach punch even extreme speed can easily revenge kill it (a +2 scizor can ohko with bullet punch after rocks). Also any pokemon thats faster can easily revenge kill it, gengar, infernape, pokes with base 100 speed like zapdos etc. Now onto the sweeping, heatran and blissey walls it completely, empoleon wont get ohko by fireblast.

I will give you an example of a pokemon thats a definition of a set up sweeper, Lucario. Life orb lucario chances of sweeping is very high, ONE wrong move can cost you the game. After a SD, any poke thats faster than lucario will get ohko by extreme speed, anything slower will get ohko by close combat, slower pokes that resist/immune to CloseCombat/xtreme speed will get ohko by crunch. With its typing it can easily beat the #1 revenge killer scizor 1v1. The pokes that can counter that are very slim, alot of teams only carry 1 or 2 counters at most. Gengar is the only few pokes that counter it, however if i see a gengar then I can make it my #1 goal to take it out. (there are some BS pokes like muk and swallot that happens to counter it).

Rushing to type this, I only see a few threats mostly situations where - if X dies Y sweeps- If flygon dies jirachi have a high chance of sweeping. If gyrados dies a sword dance scizor can sweep mainly because your mag has no hp fire and does not like taking +2 superpower. Dragonite can set up DD and be a pretty big threat as well, 2DD is pretty much GG so dont let that happen. Gengar dies, gyrados less than 60% hp, Lucario set up SD and end this, again dont let that happen.

Anways nice team, I hope this rate helps.
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PostSubject: Re: Offensive-ish 4th Gen team   Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:00 am

Yea that seems to be the problem...but Ive got no one in my team who can learn stealth rock. I was thinking of replacing Magnezone with Forretress but I needed a poke to take out bulky waters and trapping Choiced steels.

But really? I almost always see a CB Scizor everywhere, like in smogon rmts and they say the CB is the standard.

The only reason why I didnt make a +speed nature for Gengar is because Im going to icy wind pokes and they slow down anyway, and its the same thing as Gengar attacking first and then getting hit next. And thats why I've got paralyze support on my Gyarados.

Yes I actually agree with the setting up sweep problem. So I might as well change my Houndoom to a Superfang wallbreaker. That way I wont be completely walled by Blissey.

And I think Gengar can solve the SD Lucario problem if the focus blast actually hits.

Hey and I asked you this question before but are you a girl? Just curious because Ive never actually seen female pokemon players lol
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PostSubject: Re: Offensive-ish 4th Gen team   Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:48 am

Lol, Allen is a guy.
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PostSubject: Re: Offensive-ish 4th Gen team   Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:28 pm

flamehound wrote:
But really? I almost always see a CB Scizor everywhere, like in smogon rmts and they say the CB is the standard.

Both sets are extremely common, the band set has more uses but not by that much. You shouldnt always assume scizor to be the band set.

flamehound wrote:
The only reason why I didnt make a +speed nature for Gengar is because Im going to icy wind pokes and they slow down anyway, and its the same thing as Gengar attacking first and then getting hit next. And thats why I've got paralyze support on my Gyarados.

Gengar should be issuing hits not talking any, its too frail. What if you use icy wind and they attack you? most likely you're gonna be ohko or drop to the red.

flamehound wrote:
And I think Gengar can solve the SD Lucario problem if the focus blast actually hits.

Another reason you should run sub on gengar, all lucario will switch out of gengar fearing the hp fire or focus blast netting you a free sub. Gengar even forces poke like infernape to switch out.

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PostSubject: Re: Offensive-ish 4th Gen team   Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:36 pm

Okay so should I not run icy wind on Gengar then? Because my only reliable possible counter to 4x ice weaks was him and no other one of my pokes can learn a good ice move.
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PostSubject: Re: Offensive-ish 4th Gen team   Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:05 am

Hmm. When all fails, go with hidden power Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Offensive-ish 4th Gen team   Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:12 pm

What do you need ice attacks for? hit flygon? hit dragonite? Flygons are mostly scarf and even if they are not your gengar is too slow, modest genger hits 95ish i think. Dragonite can easily be revenge kill by flygon.

And about your role play houdoom, I just saw you updated right now so had to comment.

Trapping magnezone? first of all magnezone will most likely switch out and if they didnt why would you use role play, risking them killing you, when you can kill them off with fireblast? Same with serence grace, why would you waste a turn stealing their ability when you can hit them hard with fireblast? This theory can apply to alot of pokes not just the ones you mentioned. Basically you are risking your houdoom getting kill for no reason.

Infernape is alot better in this situation here because, it can learn stealth rocks (which you are in dire need of), its faster, it has a better movepool and just outclass houdoom in every way possible. Your only reason for using houndoom is that its your favorite poke, I have no problem with that but if you are playing competitively you should always use the strong powerful stuff.

Personally if I was playing with this team here are my changes:

-Timid gengar sub+3 attacks
-Breloom is fine
-Max gyrados speed, the rest can be put into hp or atk depending if you want a bulky variant or powerful one
-Specs magnezone with hp fire
-flygon is fine
-Sash infernape with rocks, hpice, flareblitz/fblast, close combat.
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PostSubject: Re: Offensive-ish 4th Gen team   Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:23 pm

For the Magnezone Hp fire, how do I get hp fire hidden power? I dont really get how to do the IV modifier, can you tell me how to do this? Possible the codes? I searched in google but I saw alot of different answers and dont know which one is actually right. This is for soulsilver btw
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PostSubject: Re: Offensive-ish 4th Gen team   Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:21 am

Yeah for hp fire the Ivs has to be- odd/even/odd/even/odd/even

so the strongest hp fire is 31/30/31/30/31/30.

and heres the link where you can make your own pokes- just follow the steps, literally takes you no more than 5min to make a poke.

http://www.pokegts.us/4thGen_Selector.aspx

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PostSubject: Re: Offensive-ish 4th Gen team   Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:33 pm

I'd listen to Allen if I were you, I absolutely agreed with everything he said
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